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The Mockers • View topic - Further balancing: Rationale.

Further balancing: Rationale.

Thievery ProMod discussion, visible to all but only approved posters may contribute.

Further balancing: Rationale.

Postby Rodent » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:27 pm

Thievery Pro Mod began with the sole intention of removing exploits that severely unbalanced the game. Namely, the ability for guards to hear everything on the map and circumventing crack and flash amongst other things.

With a lot of this work done, we appear to be moving into the murkier waters of adjusting game dynamics that were previously seen as acceptable in the eyes of many players, ourselves included.

How can we justify making changes to a game that we religiously defended for years, rejecting ideas from players when they insisted it was imbalanced?

My answer is this: Just because a game is balanced, (especially if only for a select tier of players), doesn't necessarily mean that it is fun, or even successful. The indifferent reception thievery receives on the biggest Thief (the inspiration behind thievery) forum is a telling indicator that not everything is as it should be.

With a green light for an official release patch, and the prospect of combining with the Unreal SDK project, we have an opportunity to improve what is already the greatest multiplayer stealth game, and pave the way for future incarnations of the project.

This thread will detail elements that make thievery enjoyable, and explain why this is the case. Once identified, we can then formulate changes to further these elements.

tl;dr: [color="red"]PLEASE POST WHAT MAKES THIEF/THIEVERY FUN BELOW[/color]
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Postby Dalai » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:08 am

Not quite answering your question, but: I think most Thief players are looking for the singleplayer Thiefy style experience: slow, immersive, calculating, hide, watch and learn patterns before making each move. It's pretty hard to offer that in two sided multiplayer though! Multiplayer adds so many variables out of the players control and condenses it into a fast paced stressful experience.
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Postby suibriel » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:41 am

For me, the most interesting and important part of stealth based multiplayer is the broken play. When your plan (individually or team driven) comes crashing down around you and you're forced to think quickly and respond correctly.

In this aspect Thievery is the best of both worlds. Although you're on a team, as a Thief you're given near complete freedom to make the best of any situation that arises be that through some tricky movement, equipment use, mind games, etc. Then on the same hand you can attempt to respond as one as a team; combining equipment wisely, killing/ko'ing effectively, baiting, etc. This is different from nearly every team game I know because, unlike them, an individual always has a chance (or should try to be in a position to have) to escape alone and still be effective through taking advantage of the broken play. Conversely, think of CS or TF or SC... if you abandon your teammate and let them take damage/die, you've lost that encounter. It's never a positive.

Most of the time when I think about changes or additions to the stealth genre I consider how each situation would play out once it gets out of hand. How to walk that balance of not being insanely stressful, as Dalai said, yet also not so easy that you can press a button and escape for free (as may be the case with certain changes introduced with ProMod),
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Postby shuggy » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:04 pm

Rodent and I came up with a list of things that we think makes Thievery a fun/exciting game to play, but we thought we'd open up the floor first to avoid influencing opinions
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Postby suibriel » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:19 pm

^ rude

As for what makes Thief fun, it has to be the atmosphere and the sense of interactivity. Thievery does this well but it's definitely something I'd want to keep intact/expand upon.
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Postby Rodent » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:21 pm

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Postby shuggy » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:19 am

Here's our list of what makes the game fun/exciting - we just bounced ideas at each other off the top of our heads:

1. Stealing shit - kleptomaniacs can't get enough of it
2. The feeling of out-thinking a human
3. The romantic notion of being a master thief, able to singlehandedly win a round by yourself
4. The tension of late rounds, the knowledge of coming conflict
5. A diverse range of equipment, with many tactical choices that depend on the situation at hand
6. A choice between stealth oriented play, and overt combat to achieve victory, with each method being equally viable.
7. Luck, the element of risk and suprise that comes from having to take a chance- whether it being opening a window, or using a decoy to escape
8. The complexity of the game allowing for outrageous moments
9. Innovation, and the scope for players to surpass others via hoarding of map knowledge
10. the pressure of knowing a 30 minute endeavour can come down to one or two key moments
11. The ability of thieves to make pre meditated decisions, observing play and formulating a plan, before being forced to act
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Postby immortius » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:26 pm

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Postby Gladius » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:20 pm

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Postby shuggy » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:55 pm

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Postby Effaraitsch » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:26 am

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