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The Mockers • View topic - Rodent's Keynesian Musings

Rodent's Keynesian Musings

Thievery ProMod discussion, visible to all but only approved posters may contribute.

Rodent's Keynesian Musings

Postby Rodent » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:36 am

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Postby suibriel » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:57 am

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Postby Rodent » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:41 am

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Postby shuggy » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:28 pm

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Postby Gladius » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:35 pm

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Postby Rodent » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:46 pm

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Postby immortius » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:46 pm

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Postby suibriel » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:50 pm

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Postby Rodent » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:59 pm

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Postby Gladius » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:00 pm

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Postby Effaraitsch » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:37 pm

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Postby Dalai » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:09 pm

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Postby Rodent » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:44 pm

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Postby Gladius » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:51 pm

Guard musings:

I really like the idea of guards having a completely different loadout/equipment system to thieves, whereby they accrue money to spend. However, it also creates so many unknowns in terms of balance and the resulting game-play. It seems like it would be great for immersion, role-playing a medieval guard, but its questionable whether it would be suitable for competative enjoyment (after everything comes out in the wash).

Rushing:

Can't be too heavy-handed with rushing, and much of it has to do with the design of particular maps (i.e. certain thief spawn points, and certain objectives that are much easier to achieve by rushing than having to deal with a camp).

While to a certain extent our aim is to create a certain play-style - one of stealth, one of skill, one of cunning, misdirection, trickery, tactics and teamwork (all the good stuff) we can't limit the legitimate options a player can take without making the game feel constricting.

However, in balancing the game we need to consider those tactics that are less skillful and overly effective. Rushing tends to be lumped in this category, but I don't see it as a problem that cannot be addressed by a few changes to equipment that make rushing HARDER, RISKIER and more SKILLFUL to execute.

Crack arrows - the cloud lasts too long, allows a rusher to partion-off large crucial areas of the map, the most famous example being the Upper West Wing on Grange.

Speed potions - imo the use of this item should be as a counter to para, and an escape mechanism. These uses can be achieved with a lesser and more nuanced effect (i.e. clearing para effect, and a shorter duration)

Flashbombs - in standard TUT they can blind a guard for up to 15 seconds, which is a huge. In promod, the length was reduced but made more reliable. However, I feel that the duration could be reduced further (subject to testing).


On the 'necessity of rushing':

Players of intermediate skill may feel forced to rush against good guarding teams because it is their best and only opportunity to achieve something before the map is completely locked-down and thier team is slowly ground into the floor. However, if stealthy infiltration is a more viable option (and I believe current changes have helped greatly) then this becomes a plausible option.

Rushing should remain an option, but it should be of comparable difficulty, and require cunning, misdirection, nuance, and less pre-mediatation.
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Postby Dalai » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:39 pm

Theory: If income (and therefore loadouts) scaled up over time for both sides, it could be great for the pacing. Early game would be quiet and stealth focused, late game would be more action packed. You could even have the more disruptive equipment unavailable from the shop at the start, with loot stolen/wages earned unlocking more shop options over time. Only really makes sense if you have a reasonably accessible shop for each side and a decent number of items.
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Postby Rodent » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:27 pm

The idea of thieves purchasing items mid round is a very tempting one.

I think it would require thieves to have a varied source of income, not just total loot stolen, or something different from loot stolen completely.

This is because it would most likely encourage rushing on maps that don't have much outlying loot, which is unfortunately many.

For example, if thieves received income simply as a function of how many thieves were alive and in play (not saying they should), that would encourage slow play.

rough ideas for distributed thief income :

-Torches watered

- Doors unlocked

- Humans or AI pick pocketed

- Perhaps a multiplier based on thieves alive or time left?

- Possession of a golden hen?
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Postby suibriel » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:33 am

For once, I agree 100% with everything Gladius just said.

Except perhaps Speed - With one potion at a time and a gradual slow effect already in place I think it's already fairly risky and hard to pull off offensively. The price, 100gold, is also balanced.

I'm glad someone else is finally getting on board the lesser duration flashbomb wagon ;)
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Postby Gladius » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:54 pm

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Postby Effaraitsch » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:01 pm

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Postby Gladius » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:20 pm

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